<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Hi Jeff</div><div><br></div><div>Although I agree to disagree (as you know), I like your slides! You can create additional triangles for criteria such as 'temperature', 'ice contents', 'flow velocities', or 'water release' to stay in the picture of a continuum by the range of physical properties. All fine! However, in my opinion things break down when it comes to criteria such as 'response to climate change' (advance/retreat) or mass balance (gain/loss). And this is actually what 'we' currently measure and model. As (active) rock glaciers can only advance and gain mass (i.e. grow over time), they do not fit into currently available schemes to model their response to climate change (or their mass balance). One might even say they are doing the opposite, i.e. advance and gain mass under higher temperatures.</div><div><br></div><div>In other words, it is not just an issue of maybe similar physical or geomorphological properties (and being special end-members of a continuum), but it is a simple yes/no thing (e.g. glaciers have an ELA, rock glaciers do not). Hence, to not confuse related computations, there must be a possibility to deselect their polygons in a database. In my opinion they are thus not a special class of mammals (dogs or babies), but belong more to the plants (maybe Redwood Trees that also need hundreds of years to properly grow up? ;)</div><div><br></div><div>All the best, Frank</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On May 5, 2020, at 11:56 PM, Jeffrey Kargel wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Dear GLIMS folks,</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">I am not sure whether this attachment will go through to the GLIMS list. I prepared this</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">to address an issue that has arisen many times in GLIMS discussions over the past 20 years, <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">including at today's GLIMS/RGI virtual meeting. A question was raised "Is a rock glacier a type of glacier?" There are different views, and as of today's meeting it became</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">much more of an academic point, as it was reconfirmed that rock glaciers will be included</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">in the GLIMS database. (This is as it has been for quite a few years, but the matter keeps coming up). </span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">This presentation gives my views on the matter, and it also provides a schematic concept</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">that can be put to use. Maybe not now in the GLIMS database, but whenever the detailed</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">dynamical characteristics and rock-ice composition of glaciers comes up in research.</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Cheers,</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Jeff Kargel</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br></div><span><Glacier-rock glacier discrimnation-rock-ice-flow-schematic.pdf></span>_______________________________________________<br>GLIMS mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GLIMS@nsidc.org">GLIMS@nsidc.org</a><br><a href="https://nsidc.org/mailman/listinfo/glims">https://nsidc.org/mailman/listinfo/glims</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>